HIROSHIMA, Japan — Early reports have indicated that the next-generation Mazda RX-7 might appear as early as 2011 as a 2012 model, and it has been expected to feature styling based on the Furai concept racecar, offer a 300-horsepower rotary engine and carry a $35,000 price tag.
But those rumors turn out to be just that — rumors. Now Inside Line has learned that a new rotary engine will power a more affordable RX-7, one that embodies the spirit of the first-generation car (the SA22C model), and output from this new engine will be a modest 200-250 hp. Meanwhile, the new-generation RX-7 is now expected to be priced around $25,000.
Although the topic of rotary engines has been kept quiet by Mazda recently (the company's line of SKY piston engines took the limelight at the 2009 Tokyo Auto Show), a company executive who requested anonymity recently confirmed that Mazda is still secretly working on the 16X rotary engine, which appeared as a concept at the 2007 Tokyo Auto Show.
While we hear that the 16X is still early in its developmental stages and issues regarding fuel economy and weight (too heavy) are rumored, the new 1,600cc two-rotor design supposedly has the potential to produce up to 350 hp with 215 pound-feet of torque. This makes it ideal for a new-gen RX-7, especially a car that embraces the ideals of the much beloved third-generation FD3S RX-7. The engine is also being developed for hydrogen fuel as well.
Which direction Mazda will choose is still unclear, but the less powerful, less expensive option seems to make more sense in the current economic climate, and would give Hyundai some competition for its new rear-wheel-drive Genesis Coupe.
Inside Line says: The RX-8's days appear to be numbered. It would make no financial sense for a small car company like Mazda to have three sports cars in its lineup, and because the MX-5 will likely not be discontinued, it's not difficult to deduce which one will get the proverbial axe. — Mak Tokuyama, Correspondent
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20bwannab says:
01:59 PM, 04/24/2011
If you look at the tech on the 16x there isn't much improvement on it from the 13b that is open to the public.
Which i think the new rx7 needs to be supercharged (will really help at low end torque but i really don't care since i won't be towing anything) and more R&D done to the engine and made to use hydrogen cause no body buys sport cars plus gas prices will be even more crazy in 5 years.
Don't even think about electric cars cause to me thats going to be the worst mistake in the auto indrustries. Just think about it a iphone battery cost 70 bucks so just think when you gotta change out the batterys in a car because no battery holds out the same battery life as when they are new.
Also with everyone charging car batterys electric prices will go up then ppl will start using solar panels then i can see the government taxing ppl that use solar panels to make up for the free energy they aren't making any money from.
And all this on knocking on the rx8 for having low power output compared to the FD i mean seriously? You do know the FD had twin turbos and you put that on the rx8 you have more output than the FD but not power/weight since the rx8 is so damn heavy to me.
Yes i have a rx8 and love it just cause i didn't want to take the risk on a daily driver on the FD
classic_rx7 says:
12:03 PM, 03/05/2011
If you want the 2012 Rx7 to be a success, you need to pay attention to what people want. Most people in the US are affraid of the rotory engine because it is very diffecult to work on and requires a different way of thinking. We want a car that is fast, looks good, will not cost us our life savings to get or drive and can beat the socks off a Mustang GT at least.I own a 1986 mazda rx7 and I love the way it runs and handles, but the 86 does have its problems ( right now mine does not want to run, and we are working on it).The rotory with an electric turbo or motor to boost low in torque sounds like a very good idea, if you can do it and make it reliable. Oh yeah, reliability is very much in demand. You set the price right and the performance right and I will trade in my 86 for one. Good luck!
sebastianmack says:
09:58 PM, 05/27/2010
Mazda!!! Please for the love of all that's good and decent in this world, put the 16X engine in a car that matches its unique characteristics! I've owned an 81 rx7 and will never forget my time with it. Great looking simplistic no bull**** design that was immensely practical for all the single folk out and about. Also it sold amazingly well when first launched and won numerous awards.
If you're putting a low torque motor thats also thirsty for gas, put the thing in a light aerodynamic car that masks these drawbacks especially on the highway. And also utilize the advantages of it being light and easy to 50/50 position by NOT putting it in a frackin 4 door fat heavy pseudo family car (ack ack gasp rx8)!! Seriously with all the retro stuff going on these days and the immediate subsequent success, Its worth mazda's time to engineer a new SA/FB/first gen RX7 thats true to its roots. Fun, practical, and boldly stylish. Oh and SMALL!! Not some beefed up fat re-imagining. And some ground clearance! Cars today look like bloody vacuum cleaners. UGH! I love the first one and wish they would just build it again with modern tech. I would get any size loan for that... unless we're talking 100k...cuz then sorry, its gonna be a porsche. If we get anything short of the sharp arrow like curve of the first one...I'm buying a 16x and throwing it in an oldie and cursing mazda's name for eternally letting their investment in felix wankels idea be lost to relics and the pages of history.
clough132 says:
10:09 AM, 05/15/2010
the rotary engine is the greatest achivement in all combustion engines its higher output for mass is awsome. Just because it has not had the 200+ years R&D like the piston engine cousin has it gets a bad name. The Rotary Engine will rule the combustion world in the future. it is the more intelegent design it just needs the R&D like its counterpart has had squandered upon it.
Mazda does need to stop wasting its resorces on i4 engines and show its rotary in all of its car line. it is the zoom zoom in Mazda and also the best engine in any sports car.
mungmibear says:
03:48 PM, 03/22/2010
I've had a rx8 for 3 years now.
Trust me. It's not worth the money!!
Sure it is not a piston engine and made me feel special for about a month but add all the gas, oils, breakdowns, rebuilds, build quality and reliability into the equation, it's just not worth it.
perfect power to weight ratio?
You can achieve that with piston engine now.
lighter engine? high revving engine?
you will barely feel the difference. Barely.
I want to sell my car but I've lost so much money in the car right now that I just can't let it go.
I have to kick it in the bumper every morning just to get through the day without getting frustrated at Mazda.
I blame my mama for not slapping me on the ass when I told her I would buy a rx8
ccd1 says:
05:31 PM, 12/27/2009
So how is this much different from the current RX-8 apart from being a coupe and not a 4 door??? With power in the same range as the RX-8, this car will offer similar performance unless they get the weight really low. And really low weight would drive up the cost of the car. This sounds more like a 2 door 2 seat version of the RX-8 for $25,000. And that won't sell much better than the current RX-8. Really, why bother if this is all you are going to do???
huyracing says:
03:58 PM, 12/27/2009
I said it all along... take a Miata and put the rotary in the there and make it a hardtop. Then you can add a wider/ sexier body on there and its a winner. It may not be a supercar, but at the very least it'll be a respectable sports car.
akirachan says:
02:32 PM, 12/26/2009
This should come as a welcome news to gearheads, but I guess I'm in the minority. I should think that if Mazda does resurrect the RX-7, it could do a lot for its branding, especially if it continues the road of good handling, tossability, and driveabliliy, instead of trying to compete with the likes of BMW's and the Porshces with their absolute brute power.
elementrace says:
04:54 AM, 12/26/2009
I like the current RX-8.... except for the rotary engine. Maybe the Mazdaspeed 3 motor with RWD or AWD? Delicious........
kafantaris says:
06:11 PM, 12/25/2009
Here is a comment left elsewhere that might still be of interest here.
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Back in 1977 Mazda learned that hydrogen was better than gasoline to power its rotary engine because the flame front of hydrogen is much faster and can reach across the long and flat combustion chamber of the rotary.
Moreover, forty years ago NASA scientist learned that even small amounts of hydrogen added to gasoline improves mileage because it allows the leaning out of the fuel mixture:
"Lean-mixture-ratio combustion in internal-combustion engines has the potential of producing low emissions and higher thermal efficiency for several reasons. First, excess oxygen in the charge further oxidizes unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Second, excess oxygen lowers the peak combustion temperatures, which inhibits the formation of oxides of nitrogen. Third, the lower combustion temperatures increase the mixture specific heat ratio by decreasing the net dissociation losses. Fourth, as the specific heat ratio increases, the cycle thermal efficiency also increases, which gives the potential for better fuel economy. NASA Technical Note, May 1977, "Emissions and Total Energy Consumption of a Multicylinder Piston Engine Running on Gasoline and a Hydrogen-Gasoline Mixture"
Much of this was confirmed again last month by Changwei Ji and Shuofeng Wang at the Beijing University of Technology. They outfitted a 4 cylinder engine with hydrogen injectors, as well as with gasoline injectors, and found that adding hydrogen allowed them to cut down the gasoline used during idle and low-load, which happens to be where car and truck engines spent half their lives:
"The test results showed that, with the increase of hydrogen enrichment level, engine-indicated thermal efficiency was improved, and the lean burn limit was extended. The peak in-cylinder temperature and in-cylinder temperature at exhaust valve opening decrease with the increase of excess air ratio and hydrogen blending level."
See http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/08/ji-20090819.html
The question for the Mazda engineers is why did they not provide for the mixing of hydrogen with gasoline in the RX-8 Hydrogen RE, since the car comes with both fuel systems onboard? Even a small amount of hydrogen would have improved mileage on gasoline mode as the ensuing fast flame front would have propagated across the combustion chamber and burn more of the gasoline to produce power. As it is now, the unburned gas goes out to the catalytic converter, thus further perpetuating the characteristic high fuel consumption of these engines.
Mazda's choices aside, however, some would rather see internal combustion engines abandoned outright than spend money, time and effort to improve them with hydrogen. But there are benefits in doing so, and maybe we ought to think about them.
First, using hydrogen in our vehicles now will increase demand for it, and thus hasten the setting up of the hydrogen infrastructure which will be needed for fuel cells.
Second, the increased use of hydrogen will streamline the way it is made or transported, and therefore drive down its cost. And as an added bonus, it will makes us more comfortable around hydrogen, and alleviate current fears of explosion.
Third, using hydrogen in our internal combustion engines now may salvage a century's worth of tooling investment in them, as well as in the transmissions, axles, etc. Whether we like it or not, all these will be around for a while, so we might as well make them efficient while they are with us.
Fourth, using hydrogen to improve the mileage of our cars, trucks, boats, and airplanes, should reduce our need for foreign oil, air pollution, and greenhouse gases. This may seem impossible since hydrogen is now made predominately from natural gas. However, we are presently implementing plans to make hydrogen from electricity at hydro-electric plants, geothermal plant, nuclear plants, and from electricity derived from the sun and the wind. Moreover, we are trying to make hydrogen from methane in farms and waste dumps; and directly from sewage, bacteria, seawater, and most promising, sunlight itself.
Fifth, since hydrogen increases the thermal efficiency of fossil fuels across the board (gasoline, diesel, alcohol, liquefied coal, coal, methane, and natural gas) mixing it with these fuels should improve the efficiency of furnaces, water heaters, boilers, jet engines, and perhaps even the natural gas or coal electric generators themselves.
Sixth, a greater use of hydrogen will hasten its implementation for storing energy in a pure and potent form. Just like we can store electrical energy in batteries, we can also store it by converting into hydrogen in a tank. Once there, the hydrogen can be used when needed, and where needed. Moreover, metal hydrides, nanotubes, or even cheap charred chicken feathers, can store hydrogen at low pressure, and can make it possible to ship huge quantities of energy in the form of hydrogen to remote corners of the earth.